What Makes a Driver a Legend?
There are a few words tossed around to describe people for greatness or notoriety. Sometimes, people tend to get a little loose with their interpretations. I have been guilty of that myself. It has been brought to my attention that I tend to overuse the words icon or iconic. I would consider AJ Foyt, Sid Collins or Wilbur Shaw to be icons in the lore of the Indianapolis 500. Although he has won the Indianapolis 500, I’m not sure I would consider Buddy Rice an icon.
Heroes and legends are two more words people use freely to describe careers that are, well…legendary.
Somewhere around 2011, IMS started a tradition of Legends Day, where a legendary driver was honored on the Saturday before the race. Maybe not officially connected as a Legends Day event, but the day always started out with the Vintage cars turning laps around the historic oval – generally around 9:00 am. Donald Davidson would be on the PA as he described the various cars and their significance to the track, Well known cars like Parnelli Jones’s Calhoun might run, while lesser known cars like the Travelon Trailer Special of Jim Hurtubise would also make an appearance. It was a great way to kick off a full, yet relaxing day at the track.
The day would also include the ceremonial Driver’s Meeting, an autograph session and sometimes a Q&A session with the honoree that year. Typical Legends Day honorees featured names like AJ Foyt, Parnelli Jones, Mario Andretti and the Unsers. I think most would agree that all those names qualified as legends.
I never understood why they never honored anyone posthumously. I get it that it helps to have the person there to be celebrated, but it would have been totally appropriate to have Bill Vukovich, Mauri Rose, Wilbur Shaw or Louis Meyer as their honoree for certain years.
In 2014, they added a late afternoon/early evening Legends Day concert that would take place in the infield in the north end. It tended to be a country artist and the crowd was much more behaved than the Carb Day crowd the day before. Susan went to the first Legends Day concert in 2014, with her oldest son. I didn’t care to spend whatever it was to see Jason Aldean, so I opted to go to Dawson’s with my brother instead. Two years later, I was happy to go with her to see Blake Shelton perform for the IMS crowd. That was in 2016, when all previous winners of the Indianapolis 500 were honorees.
2019 was the last really good Legends Day. The Zac Brown Band (not that Zac Brown) performed, and Mario Andretti was honored on the 50th anniversary of his 1969 win. The vintage cars ran, but the 1967 Gordon Johncock car crashed in Turn Two and caught fire – thereby putting an end to the cars running that day and never again after that. Once Roger Penske bought the place, the vintage cars have not come back, Donald Davidson has retired and the Legends Day concert was moved offsite. Drivers were still named as honorees, but other than a driver’s autograph session and the ceremonial Driver’s Meeting – Legends day had devolved to nothing more than a footnote of where it was less than a decade ago.
They have started the practice of putting the honoree of the year’s likeness on the bronze and silver badges. This year’s bronze and silver badges will carry the likeness of 1985 winner Danny Sullivan. Although nothing on the track website for Legends Day actually states that Sullivan is this year’s honoree, it doesn’t say who is. Therefore I am operating under the assumption that Sullivan is the official honoree for Legends Day 2025.
That begs the question…is Danny Sullivan a legend? I have asked this question to a few people in the IMS Media Center and gotten a wide range of answers. Some are angered that I would even ask such a question. Others are at the far end of the spectrum and say “absolutely not”. The majority of folks ponder the question and say that I’ve raised an interesting point.
I’m not sure if he is or isn’t, but I do think it’s fair to discuss the question.
When I first started thinking about this, I was driving and had no access to look anything up. I had to go strictly from memory, which at my age is getting more and more risky. I was trying to think who had a comparable career to Sullivan’s, and if that driver might be considered a legend. As I drove, it occurred to me that Sullivan had a similar record to Simon Pagenaud. Each had one Indianapolis 500 win, and one series championship on their resume. They each accomplished both feats while driving for Roger Penske.
After I got home, I pulled up their stats. I didn’t realize how similar they were. In CART, Danny Sullivan drove in 171 races over twelve years. He won 17 races, earned 40 podiums and won 19 poles. After being released by Penske four years after his Indianapolis 500 win and two years after his lone championship, he drove for Pat Patrick, Rick Galles and PacWest racing.
Pagenaud drove in 193 IndyCar races over thirteen seasons. He won 15 races, earned 38 podiums and won 13 poles. After being released by Penske two years after his Indianapolis 500 win and four years after his lone championship, he dove for Meyer Shank Racing.
The only differences were that Sullivan won two races in his career after Penske, before his career ended with a serious crash in 1995 (after having no ride in 1994) and he retired from racing shortly thereafter. Pagenaud had a very forgettable stint at Meyer Shank in 2022, and things were even going worse in 2023, before his career ended with a serious crash and he retired (not officially) from racing shortly thereafter. And yes, I am repeating my exact wording on purpose.
One person told me that Sullivan’s Indianapolis 500 win was legendary in itself. It was a memorable save, but it appears to me that Sullivan was the one that caused the spin to begin with. If you want to minimize it, all Sullivan did was correct his own huge mistake.
Both Danny Sullivan and Simon Pagenaud had good careers. Their careers were better than solid, they were good. Most drivers never achieve a series championship or an Indianapolis 500 win, and Sullivan and Pagenaud each did both. But does that make either of them legends? AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti are legends. Bobby and Al Unser are legends. Scott Dixon is a legend. Those drivers did extraordinary things.
Will Power is a legend. He has won more poles than anyone in history, he is a two-time series champion and has an Indianapolis 500 win to his credit. He has won a total of 44 races in Champ car and IndyCar, with a combined 105 podiums and 70 poles between the two series.
Alex Palou is tracking to be a legend, but you need to do it in more than just over four seasons. But 14 wins, 34 podiums and 7 poles in a little more than four seasons certainly has him well on his way to legendary status. If he doesn’t become a legend, it’s either because he was injured, retired way too early or went to another series.
Helio Castroneves is a legend, although he never won an IndyCar championship. However, his four wins at Indianapolis more than make up for that. Add to that his total of 25 wins, 84 podiums and 48 poles – I think it’s safe to say Helio will be considered a legend whenever he hangs up his helmet, if not already.
But Danny Sullivan or Simon Pagenaud? I’m not so sure. What do you think?
George Phillips
Oilpressure 
May 13, 2025 at 5:52 am
I think Danny Sullivan is a legend because of the “Spin to Win”. Without it he’s not a legend, just as Simon Paugenau is not a legend either. Just my opinion.
May 13, 2025 at 6:46 am
This is the problem you get when you start a recognition program, and limit it to living legends. Pretty soon you run out of true Legends (who are rare, by definition). Once you’ve gone through Foyt, Andretti, the Unsers, and a handful of others, you have to start digging deeper and find a lot of people who are noteworthy, but not much more.
May 13, 2025 at 9:20 am
I think “legend” carries with it the connotation of the word in regards to story in addition to the more direct definition of a legend as an individual. That is, a person who is a “legend” likely did something “legendary”… something especially uncommon, perhaps difficult to believe, something that people will relay to others for years hence.
This view is something Danny Sullivan has, by almost objective measure. It is difficult to deny that the “Spin and Win” is a legendary moment in the history of the great 500, and combined with Sullivan’s success on the track and interesting story off the track (his time as a NYC taxicab driver, appearing on Miami Vice, etc.) it seems easy to argue his status as a legend of the 500 and of the sport. Simon Pagenaud’s legendary moments (his wild 2019 Indy GP victory or going 5th-3rd-5th with 4 wins in the championship for Sam Schmidt, for example) are less prominent and more challenging to argue for.
I would disagree with the notion that a duration of statistical excellence is necessary for a driver to become a legend. Or rather, it should be acknowledged that a number of drivers are regarded as legends without these things, instead reaching such status through an accumulation of legendary experiences or accomplishments
Ray Harroun, a one-time winner who took relief during his victory, is a legend because he won the first 500 and because of the Marmon’s rear-view mirror. Or think of Jim Hurtubise, a legend for his commitment to front-engine cars, for his beer cooler “engine”, and for his remarkable recovery from that awful wreck much more so than for his on-track accomplishments. One could argue that perhaps these drivers don’t qualify as legends… but I don’t think it can be denied that a great many Indy fans regard them as such.
May 13, 2025 at 11:16 am
Danny is more of a legend than Buddy Rice or Eddie Cheever but less than Mears or Unser. But heck, I think Helio is less of a legend than some 1 or 2 time winners, he won a couple of those in easy years for them or debatable if he won 2002 fairly. But, I digress, I think it just depends. I’m ok with Danny though here, and if they do Rahal next year, that’s ok too.